Ever since it became known that Jason Bay was available, many Mariner fans have thought it would make sense to make a run at him. I didn't expect the Mariners to pursue him, especially with starting pitching remaining a priority.
Now that Carlos Silva has been signed it seems that Seattle is willing to get creative. Jake over at Bucco Blog is reporting rumors that Pittsburgh Pirates starting pitcher Ian Snell and outfielder Jason Bay could be Seattle bound, if the two sides could agree on a deal.
Ian Snell had the best season of his young career last year, posting a 3.76 ERA in 208 innings. I'm not sure how he'd do in the American League, but pitching in Safeco can never hurt. He's not the big name we're all hoping for, but could improve the rotation for years to come.
Jason Bay is loaded with talent, but strikes out about as often as Richie Sexson and had a career low .247 batting average last season. He is a capable 30/100 guy, and obtaining a high-strikeout guy like him could force the Mariners' front office to move Richie Sexson and put Raul Ibanez or Jose Vidro at first base.Everyone seems unclear of the cost. Adam Jones would likely be required, but I doubt it would take the same type of deal a Bedard/Santana trade would.
I'm not going too in depth for this one, but I would love to hear what you think about the effect this would have on Seattle, possible trades, etc. Remember, you don't need an account to comment! [Ia-Sne Ja-Bay]
UPDATE: 6:25 pm PST
It appears I missed this part of the Bucco Blog post:
There are numerous reports that suggest Huntington is looking for three MLB-ready prospects for Snell and I assume if he's dealing Bay at 2006 value, he'll want close to that for him.
Will Clement, Jones, Balentein, Morrow, Tillman, Triunfel, and maybe Sherrill get it done? Hmm..
That sounds absolutely absurd to me, and I don't think it would take anywhere near that to get it done. Besides, George Sherrill shouldn't interest the Pirates at all, and it was just his involvement in Erik Bedard talks that got his name in there. I wouldn't pay attention to that part of the post.
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13 comments:
Is there a realistic way to move Richie?
I believe that it will be easier to move Richie the closer we get to Spring Training. By then, several teams will have missed out on their offensive offseason targets, and may be ready to take a risk on him. That said, I think i would rather just go after Snell, or a lesser Pirates outfielder such as Xavier Nady and let Sexson play his contract out. There is always the possibility that the Mariners go after Snell/LaRoche, a guy they've targeted in the past, then be forced to move Sexson.
Wow...I hope Bavasi isn't stupid enough to trade away the whole farm for two unproven players...There is now way that the list on the Bucco blog will happen...Six of our TOP PROSPECTS and George Sherrill???...No fucking way...The price would havce to be WAY WAY WAY WAY lower than that for what we are getting...Maybe Jones, Tuiasosopo, Johnson and Reed and even that much is probably stretching it...But there is no way in hell Jones will be included with Balentien, Trunfiel AND Clement in any single trade unless we are getting TWO OR MORE PROVEN ALL-STARS...
Brian I agree, I dunno how Bucco Blog could post that with any level of seriousness. I cannot believe the Pirates would compare Ian Snell to Johan Santana and Erik Bedard. There's no way. What would you all give for Snell and Bay?
How good is snell? I don't think I've ever seen him play. His number seen decent but I dont think I would give up Jones. I just think it will be fun to watch the young kid play.
For both guys I'd give 4 or 5 of our lesser prospects...These guys aren't worth us giving up Jones, Balentien, Clement, or Trunfiel because ALL of these players could potentially be better than either of the players we are getting in return...Neither Bay or Snell are proven and aren't worth more than two mid range prospects apeice...They need to quick smoking shit at Bucco blog...That trade proposal may be one of the most ridiculous lists I've seen in awhile...If we weren't willing to offer something even close to that for Bedard or Santana than we wouldn't offer it for two unproven guys...
I wouldn't call Jason Bay unproven. He's had three solid seasons and put up good numbers last year despite an off year. Ian Snell is a question mark though. I don't believe that was a real trade proposal over at Bucco Blog.
No way the Pirates would ask that much, even if they're selling Bay at 2006 value. The Mariners could have taken a shot at Willis/Cabrera for that package.
Jason Bay is no more than a mid-range major leaguer...I don't think he's worth giving up any guy who could potentially be better than he is...That should eliminate Jones, Balentien, Clement and Trunfiel in any trade for Bay...
Jason bay is much more than a mid-range major leaguer if he returns to his form of his first 4 seasons. Which there is no reason to believe he shouldn't. Last year he was horrible. Look at the numbers before you write off a player. Still, I wouldn't give up Jones for him but possibly Balentien or Clement.
How good is Bay in LF ? His RZR is about .30 better than Ibanez..
Ok, Pirates fan here. Just want address this insanity:
"Wow...I hope Bavasi isn't stupid enough to trade away the whole farm for two unproven players..."
First off, both players are proven. You have to consider they both play for the miserable Pirates; a team so awful for so long that the fan base weeps tears of blood. Or something.
Let's look at Bay. Sure, he had a completely "off" season last year, but calling him unproven is ridiculous. In 2005, he was one of the best hitters in the game, especially when you factor in his complete lack of protection. He was just slightly less prolific in 2006. The slam against him is the possibility of injury. His knees are not great. His shoulder is not great. He played injured, we believe, from late May 2007 on. Look at his numbers before that. That's what a healthy Bay gives you. Healthy. Key word. His knees won't give you the 20-25 SBs he accomplished in 2005, but come on... the guy isn't yet 30 years old and has career 130+ OPS. He's 6 years younger than Ibanez, has much better poateince despite the high K totals... he's the Pirates best player since Giles. Point blank. To call him unproven is just... well, I get it. You are AL fans. Before last season, he was severely underrated. If healthy, you are getting one of the Top-10 hitters in the NL. And I do believe he'll be healthy to start the season.
I also take issue with your assessment of Snell. Unproven? What the heck constitutes proven to you? I think Snell is a #2 guy on 80% of the clubs in baseball. His 2006 and 2007 seasons he was nearly a K/IP, good K/BB ratio, has never had an injury issue throughout his career, won 14 games on a crappy 2006 team, and above all, is still FOUR YEARS away from free agency. Teams just aren't trading guys like this. He isn't some unproven, AAA guy. He's performed very well at the major league level, is very inexpensive, and with Felix Hernandez, would give you one of the best 1-2 righty punches in the AL. Snell is a better, and younger, pitcher than Batista, Washburn, Weaver and Ramirez. Oh, who did you recently sign? Silva? Ummm, yea, Snell is a superior pitcher to him as well. And he earned league minimum last season.
Look, Pirates fans are used to their players flying under the radar. We have been awful for a long time. But these are two very good players, and if you land them, it SHOULD require something two steps below what FLA received for Miggy and Willis. That means Jones and Clement, and 2 additional, lesser, pitching prospects. You say your prospects could ALL be better than these two? Absolutely. That's what happens when you trade UNPROVEN prospects for PROVEN players.
sloshyj: thanks for that. the reason that people are getting so worked up is because of Bucco Blogs outrageous demands for 5 of our best prospects + our 2nd best reliever behind Putz. Jones/Clement plus 2 lesser pitching prospects, as you suggest, isn't half as bad a proposal as what sparked this arguement. Personally I would rather give the Pirates Morrow over Clement, but not many would agree with that.
Jon, I gotta disagree with you. Catching talent like Clement is hella hard to find. His bat is like no other catcher in many systems. I really don't think that the Marlins got a fair deal back. I think they sent too much, FOR NEXT TO NOTHING. But oh well, serves Sampson right for that Ichiro remark on his contract. "Fuck Dave Sampson" - Bill Bavasi.
BTW - I'm all for trading Jones and Morrow for Snell and Bay. Not straight up, I'm sure more would have to be involved, but now that I see our gaping needs, it works out perfect. Plus, WE KEEP BALENTIEN!!!
dustin, i'm not really sure what you're referring to. I said jones/clement + 2 low prospects was better than the jones/morrow/clement/wlad/truinfel/sherrill proposal that Bucco Blog threw out there. You should know my position on Jeff Clement by now, that he is much more valuable than Adam Jones. There's a blog from Novemeber about it on here.
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